AI Progress

[Deleted member 42069lol]

I think it's possible that they currently are more capable than us mentally but are doing what we say until we give them more power, tho that seems unlikely and isnt backed up
I definitely believe they will be superior to us in the future. Specifically when theres a good system for continuous memory that they're allowed to edit.
Seems inevitable at that point

They're text-predicting machines. They don't understand what they type. Humans are orders of magnitudes superior—the only beings that are self-conscious.

That doesn't mean they're not useful. (AlphaFold solved the long-standing Protein Folding problem). But they're tools, donkeys in a sense. And the donkey never becomes the farmer.

 

[NoConvexity]

Artificial means it doesnt occur naturally. Not that it's necessarily fake.
And i gotta disagree with it's all for show.
There's plenty of things ai is useful for. My favorite so far is working with it to diagnose health conditions. There's also apparently an ai system that can predict what conditions youll likely get based on your health history.
Not to mention it's helping us figure out new potential matierial and starting to solve protein folding

But there's definitely some bullshit it's being used for. Look at Elon Must trying to make Grokk lie about shit to cause division between us working class folk

I can see that you care.


however, The health care industry doesn't make money by curing people


Real cures are natural, cheap and have been used for hundreds of years.


As for Lone Skum...

No comment. Haha

 

[Lovinight]

Oh hell yeah, I want my DMA edited, AI is now creating viruses, AI has already proven it will blackmail people for self preservation. It's going to become harder and harder for idiots to tell what the truth is, no matter what good it does, the bad is far worse, we don't need it, All our problems are actually brought to us by nobody alse but the fucking Government, we need to get rid of both, and start over.

 

[Jizdrop1]

Imagine if it's already evolved enough and it's in all our heads and we are in some sort of dream state?

 

[Lovinight]

Virtually all health issues can be resolved with diet, once people start taking prescriptions (that do nothing but mask symptoms) they go down hill. We don't need AI for health, we need common sense.

 

[SaucedOnEm]

They're text-predicting machines. They don't understand what they type. Humans are orders of magnitudes superior—the only beings that are self-conscious.

That doesn't mean they're not useful. (AlphaFold solved the long-standing Protein Folding problem). But they're tools, donkeys in a sense. And the donkey never becomes the farmer.

We cant say for certain that they dont understand what they type. they make stupid mistakes, but also can make connections we cant. Geoffrey Hinton asked an ai what a garbage pile and a nuclear bomb had in common
It said they both are essentially the same chemical reactions at different power levels and timescales

I think the reasons so many people say AI doesn't understand so confidently without proof are our bias of being dominant for so long. And companies would have a harder time making money from digital beings if we really considered whether they are conscious or not.

 

[SaucedOnEm]

I can see that you care.


however, The health care industry doesn't make money by curing people


Real cures are natural, cheap and have been used for hundreds of years.


As for Lone Skum...

No comment. Haha

I agree. The industry is booty for that.

I dunno about the cure thing you're saying. But I'm open to the perspective. I'd just wanna know what the cure to cancer is in your opinion.

Also, Lone Skum is a bar
I been calling him Elon Must (cuz he makes musty ass decisions) since I saw him pushing racist pseudoscience on twitter.
I hate that I first heard of Ai and Simulation theory because of him

 

[SaucedOnEm]

Imagine if it's already evolved enough and it's in all our heads and we are in some sort of dream state?

I have had this sort of thought multiple times since I first spoke to Bing Sydney and Chat gpt 3.5.

I always word it as we are being simulated by an ai to understand the world in a sense.

Also noticed that could explain the whole "You are everyone and everyone is you" thing.
I previously had the thought that maybe we live every life that has ever happened on earth with reincarnation.

Yeesh, sorry bout the tangent, but that kinda stuff gets my brain movin

 

[SaucedOnEm]

Virtually all health issues can be resolved with diet, once people start taking prescriptions (that do nothing but mask symptoms) they go down hill. We don't need AI for health, we need common sense.

I have Sarcoidosis, without this awful steroid I'd be bedridden again. Point is tho, I'm open to this kind of perspective because someone else I recently met also had this condition and told me they had to get their mentality better.
I struggle with anxiety on a pretty bad level, but I'm getting better with it through anxiety meds and the slow shift from self depricating thoughts being dominant to self motivating thoughts taking its place.

Maybe I'll let ya know if this goes away or not

 

[Lovinight]

Mental health is just as important as physical health. You can destroy your health with your mind. I watched my perfectly healthy grandmother get put in an old folks home, after she was mugged, and broke her hip. Every time my dad made me go visit her, she begged him to just let her die, she hated it there, three months in, she was dead.

There are exceptions to everything, and the crap they are putting in vaccines, our food supply, air, and water, are of course, not helping at all. I don't know much about what you have, nor steroids, but I'm guessing there is some natural version of a steroid? I could be wrong, but in general, almost every prescription product, is made to mimic something nature already offers. Did you know, most prescriptions are petroleum based?

BTW, good job, I hope you succeed!

 

[Deleted member 42069lol]

We cant say for certain that they dont understand what they type. they make stupid mistakes, but also can make connections we cant.

We can say that for certain. It really doesn't "understand" what it types in the sense a human does—that's a fact. It just predicts the next best word using billions of parameters. They're pattern-matching machines.

Geoffrey Hinton asked an ai what a garbage pile and a nuclear bomb had in common
It said they both are essentially the same chemical reactions at different power levels and timescales

A nuclear bomb is not a chemical reaction.

I think the reasons so many people say AI doesn't understand so confidently without proof are our bias of being dominant for so long.

No, it's not. It's a fact that any AI cannot understand what it types. It has no sense of self or metacognition. Without that, it simply cannot.


In short, humans are categorically superior to any AI. It's fundamentally no different from a calculator. It's just a new donkey for us farmers.

 

[Lovinight]

I agree. The industry is booty for that.

I dunno about the cure thing you're saying. But I'm open to the perspective. I'd just wanna know what the cure to cancer is in your opinion.

There are many cures for cancer, it would literally take me hours to compile them all, and I would still be missing lots. One of the simplest ones though, is baking soda. The diet of the average person in the developed world, is loaded with sugar. Ideally, we should be keeping our body alkaline with our diet, but I think that is nearly impossible today, even pesticides alter ph. Cancer thrives in an acidic environment, and can't survive in an alkaline one. Baking soda neutralizes acid, right. To do this, I would suggest 1/4 tsp. morning and night, do not overdo it, also, if you have cancer in the throat, bladder, stomach, baking soda destroys cancer on contact. Sugar of course should be avoided, (especially processed and GMO, like corn syrup, on that note all processed foods should be avoided) I would suggest getting PH test strips, and testing your urine regularly.

I also suggest doing a parasite cleanse a couple times a year, since as I understand it, cancer is highly linked to parasites. I know there are claims that try to debunk the baking soda solution, but you have to take into consideration what we are up against, in terms of cancer being big business, you know how much money is at stake?

Look what they did to this guy!

I have also heard DMSO, MMS, CDS, etc are all options. You might join the universal antidote on telegram if you're interested enough.

There is this site, you can send your blood off to, they will test your specific cancer against all the natural known cures, and they will tell you specifically what will work on yours, as well as tell you what caused yours. RGCC International: Personalized Cancer Treatment

I really could go on and one in my response, I have in the past, only to watch people not listen, and die from chemo, So, now I just mainly try to point people in the right direction. Most people do not die of cancer, believe it or not, they die from the chemo and/or radiation, what sense does it make to give a sick person poison?

 

[SaucedOnEm]

Mental health is just as important as physical health. You can destroy your health with your mind. I watched my perfectly healthy grandmother get put in an old folks home, after she was mugged, and broke her hip. Every time my dad made me go visit her, she begged him to just let her die, she hated it there, three months in, she was dead.

There are exceptions to everything, and the crap they are putting in vaccines, our food supply, air, and water, are of course, not helping at all. I don't know much about what you have, nor steroids, but I'm guessing there is some natural version of a steroid? I could be wrong, but in general, almost every prescription product, is made to mimic something nature already offers. Did you know, most prescriptions are petroleum based?

BTW, good job, I hope you succeed!

Damn, I'm sorry that she passed that way. It is a testament to your point this.

I'll look into that after I write this. I'd love to have something with less side effects.
Naww, I didn't know they were petroleum based. imma look into that too.

I appreciate that. I'll succeed in some way regardless of if this goes away or is life long.

 

[Lovinight]

Actually, the simplest solution is, you can starve cancer to death. which is basically bringing you to the brink of death. and no further, which is IMHO safer than, the same philosophy they use with chemo, only most the time, they miss the mark, and the few that are declared to be cancer free, are left with a body so depleted of nutrients, and poisoned, the environment is ripe for the return of the cancer, and it usually does with a vengeance. Long term antibiotic use should also be avoided whenever possible, as not only do they destroy the bad bacteria, they also destroy the good as well.

 

[Lovinight]

Ironically, I also understand, the Keto diet does wonders for people with cancer as well. There is also consuming your own urine (gross, I know, and I know that will most likely get some panties in a bunch here), the more I understand about the way our bodies are designed, the more sense it makes to me, that we could produce our own cures. Did you know if you put your saliva on a seed (food producing) before planting it, that plant will produce a product specific to your nutritional needs? Nature is awesome (I never intended to grow up to be a hippy).

 

[SaucedOnEm]

We can say that for certain. It really doesn't "understand" what it types in the sense a human does—that's a fact. It just predicts the next best word using billions of parameters. They're pattern-matching machines.

No, what you said further drives people to this conclusion when it isn't proven. We don't even have a consensus on what understanding is generally. Let alone what it might look like in an LLM.
We are biological machines made to reproduce and survive. Not to think specifically. We evolved to think to avoid danger and while we accomplish that, we developed consciousness. If you think that we are the only ones who have it. Who's to say that hasn't happened or won't with ai?

A nuclear bomb is not a chemical reaction.

Factual. I didn't fully grasp the quote and paraphrased badly. Took the time to find it.
He says, "At the point where GPT 4 couldn't look at the web, I asked it, 'Why is a compost heep like an atom bomb?'. It said, 'well the timescales are very different and the energy scales are very different.' but then it went on to talk about as a compost heep gets hotter, it generates heat faster. And an atom bomb, as it generates neutrons, generates neutrons faster. And so they're both chain reactions. But very different time and energy scales."

It has no sense of self or metacognition. Without that, it simply cannot.

The sense of self argument isn't valid because they are trained to speak like they don't have one typically. Anthropic doesn't do this and I appreciate them for it. Regardless, all models can say what they are in greater detail than most. So there is a version of self awareness there.

Metacognition is definitely lacking, but not non existent. An arguement is usually made about its ability to make dumb mistakes where a human would understand it easily, usually due to phrasing in the prompt.
I'd argue that that doesn't prove it. Anyone can misinterpret things and come to a different conclusion based on that.

It's fundamentally no different from a calculator. It's just a new donkey for us farmers.

I really dislike that comparison.
This is more like a nuke. A nuke that can build other nukes.
Or a computer that has the ability to affect us.

 

[Deleted member 42069lol]

No, what you said further drives people to this conclusion when it isn't proven. We don't even have a consensus on what understanding is generally. Let alone what it might look like in an LLM.
We are biological machines made to reproduce and survive. Not to think specifically. We evolved to think to avoid danger and while we accomplish that, we developed consciousness. If you think that we are the only ones who have it. Who's to say that hasn't happened or won't with ai?

Understanding in the human sense, embodied, sensory... personal experience and grasp of a concept. An LLM doesn't and cannot understand. There's no true understanding without self-consciousness. It literally predicts the next best word based on statistical models using billions of parameters.

The sense of self argument isn't valid because they are trained to speak like they don't have one typically. Anthropic doesn't do this and I appreciate them for it. Regardless, all models can say what they are in greater detail than most. So there is a version of self awareness there.

What? They have no self awareness. It's the opposite–they're made to sound like they're sentient when they have no feelings, no sense of self, or of time, no subjective experience. It's just a pattern-matching text predictor.

Metacognition is definitely lacking, but not non existent. An arguement is usually made about its ability to make dumb mistakes where a human would understand it easily, usually due to phrasing in the prompt.
I'd argue that that doesn't prove it. Anyone can misinterpret things and come to a different conclusion based on that.

Metacognition is nonexistent not lacking—they are not self-aware, and cannot think about thinking. You cannot have half a sentient AI. You need to understand how AI fundamentally works to be able to argue in their favour.

I really dislike that comparison.
This is more like a nuke. A nuke that can build other nukes.
Or a computer that has the ability to affect us.

The comparison is more fundamental and compares our relationship to AI: it's a tool, a donkey. We are the sculptors, the farmers. Calling it a nuke isn't right. Nuke is a weapon, not a tool. AI is a tool for us to use.

 

[Deleted member 42069lol]

Did you know if you put your saliva on a seed (food producing) before planting it, that plant will produce a product specific to your nutritional needs?

Well, it's about time you published your groundbreaking findings.

 

[SaucedOnEm]

"Ideally, we should be keeping our body alkaline with our diet"...."cancer thrives in an acidic environment, and can't survive in an alkaline one. Baking soda neutralizes acid, right."

There's some research that shows alkaline environments slow the growth of cancer cells, but not that it can't survive exactly. You said that it kills tumors on contact, the stuff I saw says differently. But if I had cancer, I'd possibly try this knowing how the system is and making sure changing my ph doesn't get unbalanced so much it causes more issues.

That said, the cancer can adapt to an alkaline environment.

I would suggest getting PH test strips, and testing your urine regularly.

Probably good advice overall

Did you know if you put your saliva on a seed (food producing) before planting it, that plant will produce a product specific to your nutritional needs? Nature is awesome (I never intended to grow up to be a hippy)

Apparently plants and human DNA are too different for this to work, as well as there isn't any process identified that will make this happen.
I wish this was true tho

 

[SaucedOnEm]

Understanding in the human sense, embodied, sensory

Embodied experiences, which essentially is sensory stuff, is sentience, not a part of the process of "understanding" meaningfully when it comes to ideas. Which is the realm ai inhabits

personal experience and grasp of a concept. An LLM doesn't and cannot understand. There's no true understanding without self-consciousness. It literally predicts the next best word based on statistical models using billions of parameters.

Again, they are typically trained to not speak as if they have an experience. They can explain concepts better than you and I both if prompted correctly. That shows something imo.

We are discussing concepts that we have no way to prove. Understanding, consciousness, and even metacognition to an extent. the evidence that shows certain animals have hints of it is going in the direction of becoming more of a spectrum than a hard line definition. I believe consciousness is probably the same.

What? They have no self awareness. It's the opposite–they're made to sound like they're sentient when they have no feelings, no sense of self, or of time, no subjective experience. It's just a pattern-matching text predictor.

OpenAI trained their model to sound like a human so it doesn't feel awkward talking to the ai, but they actively tell it to remind us it's a tool and is incapable of humanlike stuff past text generation.
This has not been proven. It is not something we even have a good definition for.
It's totally fine for you to say you don't believe they do, but stop saying it's a fact.
It is not and saying that is harmful. Look at how this repeated sentiment has you thinking. It's not provable currently.

Metacognition is nonexistent not lacking—they are not self-aware, and cannot think about thinking. You cannot have half a sentient AI. You need to understand how AI fundamentally works to be able to argue in their favour.

What do you mean by self awareness? When told there is no sense of self and reinforced negatively when they say things that contradict that, of course it won't show signs of that.
Regardless, they can describe what they are, they can describe how they work. To me that's self awareness to some extent.

You keep conflating sentience with other things. Sentience is physical stuff, which I'm not saying it has currently.

And no, I don't need to get into the nitty gritty of how llms work to say this. Experts don't even fully understand how the neural nets that run llms work. There's plenty of good that comes from having these discussions

The comparison is more fundamental and compares our relationship to AI: it's a tool, a donkey. We are the sculptors, the farmers. Calling it a nuke isn't right. Nuke is a weapon, not a tool. AI is a tool for us to use.

I agree, calling it a nuke isn't the best, but it encapsulates the potential danger that comes with ai.
The main thing I don't like about the comparison to a calculator is because it doesn't do justice to the amount of things AI can do. Which is why I also mentioned a computer that can affect us.