How Long Would the Zombie Apocalypse Really Last?

[keymon231]

Unfortunately I cant. According to "facts" the boy was suffering from pneumonia, was admitted in critical condition, and declared dead. This incident is just an example that even science has a difficult time grasping death - malpractice or otherwise, and that all that we studied/practiced/believed we have only scratched the surface.

The only fact that known to science is, dead people don't come back. There is a reason why we don't bury our dead with a respiratory tank and cellphone just in case. Dude, I really want to amuse you with wild scenarios to keep things interesting, I really do. But I can't.

Like I said, if there were a case of brain dead patient recovery, it would be flagged as a false declared, human error or equipment malfunction. It's not that uncommon in medical practice. And according to the law in the U.S, medical examiner does not liable for false declaration of death unless it's acted out of malice or in purpose.

The criterion for the determination of death has always been left to the physicians.

I have to call this a false declaration of death, because it's the only legit explanation.

A re-investigation was launched after the reports but the results were conclusive that the boy had been admitted to hospital in critical condition and was declared dead after suffering cardiac-respiratory failure.

"Convinced that his son was victim of medical malpractice, Mr Santos has now registered a complaint with the police who have launched an investigation"

The re-investigation was to determine if the boy a victim of medical malpractice, not a scientific investigation to study the 'resurrection' of a dead boy.

I am not the one saying he's dead - that is all on the doctors and the global media reports.

They reported a story of a declared dead boy sits up in his coffin, that's all.

 

[MawlinRogue]

The only fact that known to science is, dead people don't come back. There is a reason why we don't bury our dead with a respiratory tank and cellphone just in case. Dude, I really want to amuse you with wild scenarios to keep things interesting, I really do. But I can't.

Like I said, if there were a case of brain dead patient recovery, it would be flagged as a false declared, human error or equipment malfunction. It's not that uncommon in medical practice. And according to the law in the U.S, medical examiner does not liable for false declaration of death unless it's acted out of malice or in purpose.

Firstly you are wrong. Brain dead is decisive i.e. there are procedures at determining a resolute brain death - http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brain-death4.htm. If it's not that uncommon even after this, then we are in deep shit. Secondly, I don't care about what the law says in U.S. because I don't reside there.

I have to call this a false declaration of death, because it's the only legit explanation.

As far as legit explanation goes, there are cases of people "declared dead" having woke up at their own funeral and carpe diem-ing the world after that or at the morgue/autopsy table (screaming of course) ... that can be definitive false declaration on the part of the doctors. But there are no legit explanations for laying lifeless again (yet) once the structural guidelines and procedures have been followed at determining death.

"Convinced that his son was victim of medical malpractice, Mr Santos has now registered a complaint with the police who have launched an investigation

The re-investigation was to determine if the boy a victim of medical malpractice, not a scientific investigation to study the 'resurrection' of a dead boy.

They reported a story of a declared dead boy sits up in his coffin, that's all.

A grieving father (who accepted his child's fate) suddenly shocked at the "resurrection" (uncommon obviously) convinced of medical malpractice thereafter, registered a complaint. Given his loss is understandable and only human, any other person would have done the same. The boy was rushed back to the hospital where he was pronounced dead a second time - no scientific explanation. All the doctors could do was scratch their heads.

Let me clear things out. First things first, this discussion has taken a sharp turn from the original context. On the whole, Zombies are a myth but the concept of a dead corpse animating itself is not if only for a brief period. In all the cases, whether it is triggered through electrical means or an unknown virus, the brain system is never revived nor the life support system.

 

[keymon231]

Firstly you are wrong. Brain dead is decisive i.e. there are procedures at determining a resolute brain death - http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brain-death4.htm. If it's not that uncommon even after this, then we are in deep shit. Secondly, I don't care about what the law says in U.S. because I don't reside there.

I said not that uncommon, not like if it happens everyday. But the fact is, shit like this happens. Especially in less developed countries. Poor medical assists and services, lousy hospital equipment and questionable expertise of the medical professionals.

As far as legit explanation goes, there are cases of people "declared dead" having woke up at their own funeral and carpe diem-ing the world after that or at the morgue/autopsy table (screaming of course) ... that can be definitive false declaration on the part of the doctors. But there are no legit explanations for laying lifeless again (yet) once the structural guidelines and procedures have been followed at determining death.

Logic comparison, a car without engine can't run. If a car that reported without engine runs, the report must be wrong. There is no other explanation.

If there is a slight possibility of resurrection, Extensive studies on the subject would be already in place. You can imagine it's magnitude, a successful research will make the researchers and the funding party rich and powerful beyond imagination.

A grieving father (who accepted his child's fate) suddenly shocked at the "resurrection" (uncommon obviously) convinced of medical malpractice thereafter, registered a complaint. Given his loss is understandable and only human, any other person would have done the same. The boy was rushed back to the hospital where he was pronounced dead a second time -

Not shocked at the "resurrection" it self but the 'marvelous' job the hospital has provided. It's obvious, no science study reported taking place on the case beside the investigation of malpractice.

no scientific explanation. All the doctors could do was scratch their heads.

Yes there is a scientific explanation, false declaration of death. And nobody even bother to look beyond that because it's simply unnecessary. I'm a certified MD ( though I never in practice ), I do not think this is something I need to scratch my head for.

Let me clear things out. First things first, this discussion has taken a sharp turn from the original context. On the whole, Zombies are a myth but the concept of a dead corpse animating itself is not if only for a brief period. In all the cases, whether it is triggered through electrical means or an unknown virus, the brain system is never revived nor the life support system.

You can push and move a car with no engine, but it doesn't mean you can drive it. You don't need brain to merely contract a muscle, ie you can twitch a headless dead frog with electric jolt if the muscle and nervous systems are still good but that's it.

 

[MawlinRogue]

Logic comparison, a car without engine can't run. If a car that reported without engine runs, the report must be wrong. There is no other explanation.

I disagree with your comparison. The ECU cannot be the brain simply because the engine cannot think or perform any action on its own nor is it the guiding force. The brain in this case will have to be the "Driver" which does the function as a brain would on a human body it also calls all the shots. So that comparison is untenable in this case.

If there is a slight possibility of resurrection, Extensive studies on the subject would be already in place. You can imagine it's magnitude, a successful research will make the researchers and the funding party rich and powerful beyond imagination.

Hate to burst your bubble but such research has already taken place. It is called guess what? Zombie cells. Researchers at Sandia National Laboratories in New Mexico have developed silica-based replicas of cells that look and even behave like living mammalian tissue, but they're not actually living things. They're dead, but they have many of the characteristics of something that's living. Hence: "zombie cells." Science has proven it.

Not shocked at the "resurrection" it self but the 'marvelous' job the hospital has provided. It's obvious, no science study reported taking place on the case beside the investigation of malpractice.

Yes there is a scientific explanation, false declaration of death. And nobody even bother to look beyond that because it's simply unnecessary. I'm a certified MD ( though I never in practice ), I do not think this is something I need to scratch my head for.

A detailed investigation should have been carried out given the severity of allegations and the bizarreness of the situation however there are none that i can find. But if thinking out of the coffin, it is a shame and discomforting at the same time because it sounds like non-disclosure fearing public hysteria if the true nature of facts are revealed. Seems summing it up as false declaration for something that we have no explanation about is the safest way to go about it.

You can push and move a car with no engine, but it doesn't mean you can drive it. You don't need brain to merely contract a muscle, ie you can twitch a headless dead frog with electric jolt if the muscle and nervous systems are still good but that's it.

Exactly why the driver is the brain and not the engine. Even if engine dies the driver can still push and move the body.

 

[keymon231]

I disagree with your comparison. The ECU cannot be the brain simply because the engine cannot think or perform any action on its own nor is it the guiding force. The brain in this case will have to be the "Driver" which does the function as a brain would on a human body it also calls all the shots. So that comparison is untenable in this case.

You don't seem to have any idea on what I was talking about.

Hate to burst your bubble but such research has already taken place. It is called guess what? Zombie cells. Researchers at Sandia National Laboratories in New Mexico have developed silica-based replicas of cells that look and even behave like living mammalian tissue, but they're not actually living things. They're dead, but they have many of the characteristics of something that's living. Hence: "zombie cells." Science has proven it.

What does this zombie cells have to do with resurrection? Seriously, please explain that to me.

A detailed investigation should have been carried out given the severity of allegations and the bizarreness of the situation however there are none that i can find. But if thinking out of the coffin, it is a shame and discomforting at the same time because it sounds like non-disclosure fearing public hysteria if the true nature of facts are revealed. Seems summing it up as false declaration for something that we have no explanation about is the safest way to go about it.

Now you sound like a conspiracy theory geek, and I'm not getting into this.

Exactly why the driver is the brain and not the engine. Even if engine dies the driver can still push and move the body.

The engine is the LIFE. A dead aka lifeless body doesn't come back alive, as an engine-less car does not run. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Pushing a car doesn't mean you're driving it, twitching a dead frog has absolutely nothing to do with resurrection of the frog. To get an idea on how the human body works, I suggest you to read William Ganong's Physiology which you can download the free Pdf version on internet. It's a good book for a start. Google for it.

 

[MawlinRogue]

You don't seem to have any idea on what I was talking about.

Were not you the one that brought up the comparison earlier in the first place?

What does this zombie cells have to do with resurrection? Seriously, please explain that to me.

This is the answer to your "if there is a slight possibility of resurrection". It may not be the answer you seek but it is the answer you need.

Now you sound like a conspiracy theory geek, and I'm not getting into this.

That is exactly why shit has hit the fan, no one friggin bothers.

The engine is the LIFE. A dead aka lifeless body doesn't come back alive, as an engine-less car does not run. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Pushing a car doesn't mean you're driving it, twitching a dead frog has absolutely nothing to do with resurrection of the frog. To get an idea on how the human body works, I suggest you to read William Ganong's Physiology which you can download the free Pdf version on internet. It's a good book for a start. Google for it.

Tell me where in this discussion have i ever stated or hinted that a dead person comes back alive? Jeebus, NO. Please quote me. My assertion from start was that zombies are brain dead mechanical creatures. This means that even if they are mobile it does not mean they are alive (driver pushing [out of the ordinary/virus infected] a lifeless car). How can the engine be the LIFE? Can it move the car of its own accord? It needs the driver i.e. the brain to start the engine (To make an engine start it must be turned at some speed, so that it sucks fuel and air into the cylinders, and compresses it). Whereas the brain does not need to be instructed because it IS the apex organ. Just because the moral majority say the brain is the ECU does not mean they are right - when you compare it to a human anatomy then it gets problematic and you don't need to read a book to figure that out.

 

[keymon231]

Were not you the one that brought up the comparison earlier in the first place?

When an impossible thing is reported taking place, the report must be wrong. I wasn't making any technical comparison but possibility comparison.

This is the answer to your "if there is a slight possibility of resurrection". It may not be the answer you seek but it is the answer you need.

Dude, where is the connection between the slight possibility of resurrection with zombie cells? Seriously, where?

Tell me where in this discussion have i ever stated or hinted that a dead person comes back alive? Jeebus,

For what it's worth, it is interesting that the 2-yo child in question was not suffering from Cardiac Arrest but died from Pneumonia. It is usually caused by infection with viruses or bacteria. Also, even if it was a case of an NDE, the timeframe far exceeded 3 minutes from being declared dead in hospital to the waking up at the funeral without any resuscitation assistance.

A dead boy, sits up in his coffin and asks for water. Dude, you need your brain to blink, let alone ask for a glass of water.

You heard that expression 'art imitates life'? well in this case it's vice versa. From a scientific standpoint, Z as portrayed in movies are improbable. What is not improbable however, is a dead person rising from the coffin/grave for a short period of time. (and i mean really dead - not faking dead or medical fuck ups)

Here is an example that received wide coverage last year - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-wakes-funeral-asks-WATER-lying-lifeless.html

A dead sits up with working brain, is resurrection. But sure, whatever makes you happy

NO. Please quote me. My assertion from start was that zombies are brain dead mechanical creatures. This means that even if they are mobile it does not mean they are alive (driver pushing [out of the ordinary/virus infected] a lifeless car)

We discussed that before, controlled movement and cognitive ability aren't pushing a car. It's driving it. Do we have to go through all that again?

How can the engine be the LIFE? Can it move the car of its own accord? It needs the driver i.e. the brain to start the engine (To make an engine start it must be turned at some speed, so that it sucks fuel and air into the cylinders, and compresses it). Whereas the brain does not need to be instructed because it IS the apex organ.

Life it self is not even a 'thing', it's a collective symptoms. You can't compare life to anything technically.

What I was meant to say, car without engine is like a bio organism without a life as in car with no engine doesn't run, bio organism with no life, dead.

Just because the moral majority say the brain is the ECU does not mean they are right - when you compare it to a human anatomy then it gets problematic and you don't need to read a book to figure that out.

And again. You should really read that book. Physiology is not a common knowledge you can figure out with common or streets smart logic.

 

[MawlinRogue]

When an impossible thing is reported taking place, the report must be wrong. I wasn't making any technical comparison but possibility comparison.

And you chose the wrong one at that. You just saw the similarity between their functions but failed to see the the bigger picture and so your comparison is one dimensional at best.

Dude, where is the connection between the slight possibility of resurrection with zombie cells? Seriously, where?

Again, limited thoughts and the bigger picture failure. "Zombie cells" or for a more scientific term - nanonots, created by fusing a tiny silicone chip to a VIRUS. The first thing they found out is these cyborgs can still operate for up to a month after the death of the host.Future-wise, nanobots can crawl inside your brain and set up neural connections to replace damaged ones and any damaged tissues, cells you name it. Thats a slight possibility.

A dead boy, sits up in his coffin and asks for water. Dude, you need your brain to blink, let alone ask for a glass of water.

Which is why this is a case of out of the ordinary. Everyone refutes it yet no one can come up with a scientific explanation behind it. When it comes to virology and Epidemiology our understanding is so limited yet we pretend we have all the answers.

A dead sits up with working brain, is resurrection. But sure, whatever makes you happy

Dude, "ressurection" is a term used by you in your defence, so stop making it sound like I used them and try to use them against me. If someone supposedly came back from death then that would be resurrection, hell even a false declaration but not when it is dead again after secs.

We discussed that before, controlled movement and cognitive ability aren't pushing a car. It's driving it. Do we have to go through all that again?

You don't to get it. If controlled movement and cognitive ability is driving (natural, normal or healthy human), then what on earth would pushing a car be? Unreal and unnatural - a zombie merely being pushed around by the virus!! A hint: think creative.

The engine is the LIFE. A dead aka lifeless body doesn't come back alive, as an engine-less car does not run. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Life it self is not even a 'thing', it's a collective symptoms. You can't compare life to anything technically.

Then why did you compare engine to life in the first place? First make up your mind.

What I was meant to say, car without engine is like a bio organism without a life as in car with no engine doesn't run, bio organism with no life, dead.

Here you go comparing life to engine again!! Class dismissed.

And again. You should really read that book. Physiology is not a common knowledge you can figure out with common or streets smart logic.

There are already enough experts. What we need more than that right now is a better understanding of Epidemiology because every time a new outbreak like SARS, MERS CoV, H5N1 etc spreads we are helpless due to our lack of proper understanding and unpreparedness.

 

[keymon231]

And you chose the wrong one at that. You just saw the similarity between their functions but failed to see the the bigger picture and so your comparison is one dimensional at best. And Again, limited thoughts and the bigger picture failure. "

Car with no engine, runs = Impossible
Living organims with no life, alive = Impossible.
Impossible to Impossible comparison, what big picture? Lol

Zombie cells" or for a more scientific term - nanonots, created by fusing a tiny silicone chip to a VIRUS.

Cool, that’s very scientific. A chip in/on a virus! Wow! Wait, which one do you think is bigger? A virus or a silicone chip? But you know what? Forget it, it wouldn't be a problem because with that startrek cutter device we can dice that silicone molecule into smaller pieces and use them to build a chip that fit to be fused on a virus. We don’t even need to know how or where to bind the chip inside the virus, fuck the virus anatomy. What if the virus mutates? Silicone chip fused virus doesn't mutate, or if it's necessary in future we can create a immutable virus for that purpose.

And The first thing they found out is these cyborgs can still operate for up to a month after the death of the host.Future-wise, nanobots can crawl inside your brain and set up neural connections to replace damaged ones and any damaged tissues, cells you name it. Thats a slight possibility.

Yup, you’re right, I was wrong. What you just said, is not only a slight possibility, it’s an undeniable proof, an absolute obviousity. I am speechless. I believe it is the same procedure the Emperor Palpatine used to revive Anakin Skywalker. Okay, see you.

Which is why this is a case of out of the ordinary. Everyone refutes it yet no one can come up with a scientific explanation behind it. When it comes to virology and Epidemiology our understanding is so limited yet we pretend we have all the answers.

Yup, because if a reported engine-less car runs, mechanics or anyone with a little knowledge on how a car operates would know ( not pretending to know ) that is unnecessary to chek under the hood to make sure, the report must be wrong.

Dude, "ressurection" is a term used by you in your defence, so stop making it sound like I used them and try to use them against me. If someone supposedly came back from death then that would be resurrection, hell even a false declaration but not when it is dead again after secs. .

You’re right, you never mentioned anything about resurrection, I assumed too much. A dead boy sits up in his coffin and asks for water is called wet dream.

You don't to get it. If controlled movement and cognitive ability is driving (natural, normal or healthy human), then what on earth would pushing a car be? Unreal and unnatural - a zombie merely being pushed around by the virus!! A hint: think creative. .

Pushing car is to like to twitch a muscle with electric jolt. It’s no way to explain that to someone doesn’t have adequate knowlede on the subject. You can’t see the right connection and the right no connection between because you figure out things with common logic and imagination. Everything is possible to you wherever and whenever you want it to.

A hint: Creative without knowledge = Cheesy science fiction.

Then why did you compare engine to life in the first place? First make up your mind.

Here you go comparing life to engine again!! Class dismissed. .

It’s the simplest apple to apple comparison about possibility. I thought you should have no problem to understand. You are right though, class dismissed. It’s pointless to continue when one is talking science fact the other one is talking science fiction.

There are already enough experts. What we need more than that right now is a better understanding of Epidemiology because every time a new outbreak like SARS, MERS CoV, H5N1 etc spreads we are helpless due to our lack of proper understanding and unpreparedness.

There you go again.

What kind of preparation you expect? What is your definition of proper understanding? how much do you know about virology and virus outbreak other than you saw in movies, read on the news and biased facts you put together with you common logic and imagination?

We can’t completely prepared for a virus outbreak because we don’t know what kind of mutation to expect. It’s not only about where and when, its also about what and how. Okay so hypothetically speaking, we’re superbly prepared for H5N1, Now we have nothing to fear about the bird flu. YAY! But wait, uh oh…. who the fuck is this H7N9 guy? Doesn’t it suppose to be H5N1 we’re waiting for?

But ofcoz you have different judgement, because to you virus stuff it’s like what you saw in the movies. Hey Dustin Hofman did that, why couldn’t you?

Seriously, go read that book. Maybe by then you could see how ridiculous you sound right now.

Anyway, I'm done here. You are not looking for facts and knowledge but to argue and looking for a win. So here is your medal, attaboy you have done a wonderful job.

 

[samoth]

Depends on where it starts...

 

[MawlinRogue]

Car with no engine, runs = Impossible
Living organims with no life, alive = Impossible.
Impossible to Impossible comparison, what big picture? Lol



Cool, that’s very scientific. A chip in/on a virus! Wow! Wait, which one do you think is bigger? A virus or a silicone chip? But you know what? Forget it, it wouldn't be a problem because with that startrek cutter device we can dice that silicone molecule into smaller pieces and use them to build a chip that fit to be fused on a virus. We don’t even need to know how or where to bind the chip inside the virus, fuck the virus anatomy. What if the virus mutates? Silicone chip fused virus doesn't mutate, or if it's necessary in future we can create a immutable virus for that purpose.



Yup, you’re right, I was wrong. What you just said, is not only a slight possibility, it’s an undeniable proof, an absolute obviousity. I am speechless. I believe it is the same procedure the Emperor Palpatine used to revive Anakin Skywalker. Okay, see you.



Yup, because if a reported engine-less car runs, mechanics or anyone with a little knowledge on how a car operates would know ( not pretending to know ) that is unnecessary to chek under the hood to make sure, the report must be wrong.



You’re right, you never mentioned anything about resurrection, I assumed too much. A dead boy sits up in his coffin and asks for water is called wet dream.



Pushing car is to like to twitch a muscle with electric jolt. It’s no way to explain that to someone doesn’t have adequate knowlede on the subject. You can’t see the right connection and the right no connection between because you figure out things with common logic and imagination. Everything is possible to you wherever and whenever you want it to.

A hint: Creative without knowledge = Cheesy science fiction.



It’s the simplest apple to apple comparison about possibility. I thought you should have no problem to understand. You are right though, class dismissed. It’s pointless to continue when one is talking science fact the other one is talking science fiction.



There you go again.

What kind of preparation you expect? What is your definition of proper understanding? how much do you know about virology and virus outbreak other than you saw in movies, read on the news and biased facts you put together with you common logic and imagination?

We can’t completely prepared for a virus outbreak because we don’t know what kind of mutation to expect. It’s not only about where and when, its also about what and how. Okay so hypothetically speaking, we’re superbly prepared for H5N1, Now we have nothing to fear about the bird flu. YAY! But wait, uh oh…. who the fuck is this H7N9 guy? Doesn’t it suppose to be H5N1 we’re waiting for?

But ofcoz you have different judgement, because to you virus stuff it’s like what you saw in the movies. Hey Dustin Hofman did that, why couldn’t you?

Seriously, go read that book. Maybe by then you could see how ridiculous you sound right now.

Anyway, I'm done here. You are not looking for facts and knowledge but to argue and looking for a win. So here is your medal, attaboy you have done a wonderful job.

Right, you were guns blazing with your hard supporting facts .. oh wait no facts were ever given, only contradictions .. my bad. But since you're such an all-round good guy and a hero, you let me win. Gotcha.

Horrah! A walk-over from a Med guy who contradicted himself at every step. A smart move. Can't really have an argument so I am done. Case closed.